1 00:00:03,139 --> 00:00:02,389 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:04,249 --> 00:00:03,149 triangle 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:04,259 you know there's explanation for 4 00:00:06,710 --> 00:00:05,370 everything that occurred in the 5 00:00:09,169 --> 00:00:06,720 Rendlesham forest incident 6 00:00:11,570 --> 00:00:09,179 it doesn't involve aliens at all it was 7 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:11,580 completely silent it comes right over 8 00:00:17,210 --> 00:00:15,420 our head it's so a classic flying-saucer 9 00:00:18,830 --> 00:00:17,220 really standing in the clearing he 10 00:00:20,450 --> 00:00:18,840 turned over to my father and held his 11 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:20,460 hand and he looked in his eyes and said 12 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:23,970 we're not alone welcome to podcast UFO 13 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:26,730 for our live show our live shows are 14 00:00:29,540 --> 00:00:28,650 right here at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard 15 00:00:31,009 --> 00:00:29,550 Time 16 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:31,019 please remember to visit the website 17 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:35,130 podcast UFO comm check out the latest 18 00:00:40,130 --> 00:00:37,140 blogs and forums and while you're there 19 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:40,140 don't forget to like our very active 20 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:42,420 Facebook page hello I'm Martin Willis 21 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:44,610 and welcome to the show we have a very 22 00:00:49,670 --> 00:00:47,550 special guest today and it's Colby 23 00:00:51,410 --> 00:00:49,680 Landrum he'll be coming up soon he'll be 24 00:00:54,979 --> 00:00:51,420 talking in his own words of what 25 00:00:57,799 --> 00:00:54,989 happened on December 29th 1980 with 26 00:01:00,139 --> 00:00:57,809 himself Betty cash and his grandmother 27 00:01:02,569 --> 00:01:00,149 Vickie Landrum we'll also be joined by 28 00:01:04,490 --> 00:01:02,579 researchers Chris Lambright and Curt 29 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:04,500 Collins and they'll all be coming up 30 00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:06,600 right after the break before we get 31 00:01:11,899 --> 00:01:08,369 started though we have a special guests 32 00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:11,909 on right now and it's Alejandro Rojas 33 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:15,000 from open minds how you doing a lot how 34 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:16,950 you doing alejandro doing good how are 35 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:19,290 you good now you got some pretty awesome 36 00:01:25,789 --> 00:01:22,470 clips going viral there from the 1940s 37 00:01:28,609 --> 00:01:25,799 through 1960s that Wendy Connors and 38 00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:28,619 Roderick Dyke had compiled can you 39 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:31,200 please fill us in on that yeah this is 40 00:01:35,690 --> 00:01:33,090 really cool and I've got to thank a 41 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:35,700 couple guys at Isaac coy and Giuliano 42 00:01:42,410 --> 00:01:40,110 Marinko Vick they are some archivist UFO 43 00:01:44,690 --> 00:01:42,420 archivists of sorts they go out there 44 00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:44,700 and they find a lot of files and put 45 00:01:49,940 --> 00:01:47,310 them together such as you know FBI files 46 00:01:52,370 --> 00:01:49,950 or airforce files and then they send 47 00:01:54,050 --> 00:01:52,380 that out to UFO researchers and I've 48 00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:54,060 been lucky enough to be on their email 49 00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:55,920 list and they've put together some 50 00:02:00,830 --> 00:01:58,110 really great stuff and this is a unique 51 00:02:03,170 --> 00:02:00,840 one that I had never heard about like he 52 00:02:06,709 --> 00:02:03,180 said Wendy Connors and and Roderick Dyke 53 00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:06,719 put together these audio files I guess 54 00:02:10,729 --> 00:02:08,640 it was started by Wendy Connor she 55 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:10,739 decided to do this and call these 56 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:13,750 compilations of audio files faded discs 57 00:02:20,510 --> 00:02:16,770 but there's some really hard to find uh 58 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:20,520 audio interviews largely from the 59 00:02:27,270 --> 00:02:23,770 beginning of UFO research back in the 60 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:27,280 40s and the 50s she remastered these 61 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:29,890 audios and put them together on this and 62 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:32,200 they're really cool clips a lot of them 63 00:02:36,510 --> 00:02:33,940 are pretty short because they're short 64 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:36,520 interviews that were on radio or 65 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:38,770 something like that but they go all the 66 00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:40,450 way back to the beginning of the 67 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:42,160 investigation in this and a lot of 68 00:02:47,070 --> 00:02:44,200 people don't know that there were a lot 69 00:02:49,890 --> 00:02:47,080 of UFO flaps going on or UFO waves going 70 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:49,900 on back when this all started we all 71 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:53,230 heard of Kenneth Arnold in 1947 really 72 00:02:56,970 --> 00:02:55,000 there were a lot of UFO sightings at 73 00:02:59,580 --> 00:02:56,980 that time Kenneth Arnold was just a 74 00:03:01,890 --> 00:02:59,590 credible person who kind of became the 75 00:03:04,290 --> 00:03:01,900 poster child for you know credible 76 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:04,300 people seeing these things and really 77 00:03:08,699 --> 00:03:06,310 made this a big deal until the Air Force 78 00:03:10,830 --> 00:03:08,709 got involved in researching but there's 79 00:03:13,290 --> 00:03:10,840 a lot of other really good cases out 80 00:03:17,550 --> 00:03:13,300 there in these files that Wendy Connors 81 00:03:20,009 --> 00:03:17,560 had found or retrieved there are US Air 82 00:03:23,009 --> 00:03:20,019 Force personnel from the 40s that are 83 00:03:26,250 --> 00:03:23,019 recounting their interest in the topic 84 00:03:28,410 --> 00:03:26,260 or their own personal sightings I you 85 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:28,420 have scientists and others talking about 86 00:03:32,670 --> 00:03:30,970 this I don't think people realize that 87 00:03:35,009 --> 00:03:32,680 in the 40s and the 50s when all of this 88 00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:35,019 started that it was a really serious 89 00:03:39,690 --> 00:03:37,660 topic in fact the air force's first 90 00:03:41,759 --> 00:03:39,700 project looking into this project Stein 91 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:41,769 had decided that you know 92 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:43,450 extraterrestrials were a valid 93 00:03:48,150 --> 00:03:46,150 possibility as to the nature of UFOs 94 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:48,160 they got a little bit in trouble for 95 00:03:52,699 --> 00:03:50,410 including that in their final analysis 96 00:03:55,050 --> 00:03:52,709 and it was eventually removed right but 97 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:55,060 and things change they began to be 98 00:03:59,160 --> 00:03:57,310 bunking more but yeah there's a really 99 00:04:01,020 --> 00:03:59,170 interesting history that is preserved 100 00:04:02,699 --> 00:04:01,030 here in these audio files they're 101 00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:02,709 absolutely great I love listening to 102 00:04:06,750 --> 00:04:04,390 them and I going to spend more time 103 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:06,760 doing that and it's great you know 104 00:04:11,310 --> 00:04:09,370 hearing the way people used to talk and 105 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:11,320 it's yeah this is kind of like an 106 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:13,350 innocence to the whole thing as well too 107 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:15,820 definitely I mean they were going into 108 00:04:20,969 --> 00:04:18,250 it more curious about what is this it 109 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:20,979 wasn't more of if you read captain 110 00:04:26,339 --> 00:04:23,950 repeal repeal to book he ran Project 111 00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:26,349 Blue Book and he reviews projects signed 112 00:04:30,210 --> 00:04:27,550 project grudge 113 00:04:32,610 --> 00:04:30,220 and he reviews how this all evolved and 114 00:04:34,619 --> 00:04:32,620 how at first you know it was like you 115 00:04:37,050 --> 00:04:34,629 said a very innocent and a very 116 00:04:38,850 --> 00:04:37,060 aboveboard look into what is going on 117 00:04:42,570 --> 00:04:38,860 before the Air Force started getting 118 00:04:44,969 --> 00:04:42,580 upset about negative comments and PR 119 00:04:46,409 --> 00:04:44,979 problems that they had ran into so it's 120 00:04:50,219 --> 00:04:46,419 an interesting history and you can hear 121 00:04:52,020 --> 00:04:50,229 that played out in these files but yeah 122 00:04:54,089 --> 00:04:52,030 people had taken everything very 123 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:54,099 seriously and you can see that there was 124 00:04:58,350 --> 00:04:55,870 this battle in the military and it still 125 00:05:00,360 --> 00:04:58,360 goes on in sorts this idea that not 126 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:00,370 everybody is all of one mind you know 127 00:05:04,589 --> 00:05:02,710 people are arguing about the nature of 128 00:05:06,899 --> 00:05:04,599 what's going on the significant whether 129 00:05:08,909 --> 00:05:06,909 these are mundane objects or not whether 130 00:05:10,649 --> 00:05:08,919 they're Russian or something possibly 131 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:10,659 extraterrestrial which some people did 132 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:12,849 entertain that idea mm-hmm 133 00:05:17,159 --> 00:05:14,650 looks like Sam Moran toes joining us 134 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:17,169 here right now so Sam go ahead and fire 135 00:05:23,249 --> 00:05:20,110 a question at alejandro rojas you know a 136 00:05:26,459 --> 00:05:23,259 lot of people today coming into the 137 00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:26,469 field haven't a clue especially many of 138 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:29,860 the skeptics and that's something I find 139 00:05:35,219 --> 00:05:32,289 so amusing when they don't understand 140 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:35,229 the history and it's very annoying as 141 00:05:41,309 --> 00:05:38,710 you know trying to combat them and they 142 00:05:42,659 --> 00:05:41,319 have no knowledge whatsoever they're 143 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:42,669 they're under the impression that 144 00:05:48,659 --> 00:05:45,190 everything began in 47 and that's it I 145 00:05:52,469 --> 00:05:48,669 have a case that came from 1920 a case 146 00:05:55,559 --> 00:05:52,479 from Indiana and so at least if you can 147 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:55,569 get that 1947 material which was a huge 148 00:05:59,939 --> 00:05:58,210 wave by gosh we had cases here in 149 00:06:02,040 --> 00:05:59,949 Illinois all across the world 150 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:02,050 like you said alejandro were all over 151 00:06:08,459 --> 00:06:04,680 the place this was a very big year for 152 00:06:11,219 --> 00:06:08,469 UFOs but it wasn't the first right first 153 00:06:13,769 --> 00:06:11,229 and I'd like to say hello Sam well hello 154 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:13,779 my friend some of the files in here like 155 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:15,340 you said and that's what makes it kind 156 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:16,960 of good writing about this stuff all the 157 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:18,849 time there's kind of a short-term memory 158 00:06:23,459 --> 00:06:20,289 and a lot of people getting into this 159 00:06:25,050 --> 00:06:23,469 room right into the topic now don't know 160 00:06:27,629 --> 00:06:25,060 a lot of the history so when you write 161 00:06:30,749 --> 00:06:27,639 about it it's news to them for instance 162 00:06:32,790 --> 00:06:30,759 a lot of them don't know about dr. J 163 00:06:36,260 --> 00:06:32,800 Allen Hynek who was the Air Force 164 00:06:39,180 --> 00:06:36,270 consultant scientific consultant on 165 00:06:41,370 --> 00:06:39,190 investigating UFO cases he was a skeptic 166 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:41,380 at first but he changed his 167 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:43,750 mind over time and a lot of these audio 168 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:45,970 files have interviews with him where you 169 00:06:51,810 --> 00:06:48,850 cure him doing some of this debunking 170 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:51,820 but then also you hear over time how his 171 00:06:55,590 --> 00:06:54,160 views changed and in the later years 172 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:55,600 where you hear the interviews where he 173 00:06:59,700 --> 00:06:57,370 really thinks there should be scientific 174 00:07:02,070 --> 00:06:59,710 study and how he was disappointed in the 175 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:02,080 airforce research that's right 176 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:05,470 absolutely hey well it's time for a 177 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:09,730 break and thanks so much Alejandro and 178 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:11,530 guess what Sam I'm going to be dropping 179 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:13,060 you like a hot potato because I don't 180 00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:15,610 have room to have everyone i Alejandro 181 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:18,460 you're talking to you take care you too 182 00:07:24,180 --> 00:07:21,220 all right so hey thanks so much 183 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:24,190 Alejandro and Sam we'll be talking to 184 00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:24,850 you next week 185 00:07:29,190 --> 00:07:26,440 all right hang in for this break we have 186 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:29,200 Colby Landrum recorded live with Chris 187 00:08:54,090 --> 00:07:31,810 Lambright and Kirk Collins coming right 188 00:08:59,310 --> 00:08:57,300 Holby you there yeah sure 189 00:09:02,160 --> 00:08:59,320 hey Colby Landrum how're you doing I'm 190 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:02,170 doing great how are y'all doing great 191 00:09:07,079 --> 00:09:04,570 Colby I'd like you to meet on the show 192 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:07,089 with us right now is Chris Lambright and 193 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:09,730 Curtis Collins uh-huh nice to meet you I 194 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:12,100 guess I missed you the two times back in 195 00:09:15,059 --> 00:09:14,170 1985 that actually went down and talked 196 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:15,069 to your grandmother 197 00:09:19,410 --> 00:09:16,480 so it's nice to talk to you after all 198 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:19,420 this time yes sir nice big welcome from 199 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:23,050 Texas I'm actually up in West the town 200 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:25,480 that blew up not long ago 201 00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:28,180 oh here yes I I was in Dallas at the 202 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:30,819 time but I'm in West right now all right 203 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:33,130 this is current I found out that you're 204 00:09:36,749 --> 00:09:34,569 your grandmother was from Mississippi 205 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:36,759 that's that's where I'm from so you know 206 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:42,610 we might be cousins it'd be so I'm just 207 00:09:49,230 --> 00:09:45,670 going to sit back here and let you two 208 00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:49,240 Curtis and Chris both you both did some 209 00:09:54,329 --> 00:09:52,000 work on the case and you know Colby I 210 00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:54,339 think you know this is kind of a rare 211 00:09:58,379 --> 00:09:56,529 appearance you haven't been I know 212 00:09:59,579 --> 00:09:58,389 you're on the UFO Hunters but I don't 213 00:10:02,550 --> 00:09:59,589 know if you've ever been interviewed 214 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:02,560 before and I think basically we'd like 215 00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:06,540 to hear in your own words what happened 216 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:09,040 what you recall that happened not what 217 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:10,510 other people told you but what you 218 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:12,970 recalled what happened back in December 219 00:10:20,009 --> 00:10:17,680 of 1980 okay first of all with my 220 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:20,019 grandmother not Betty Cass we all took 221 00:10:26,970 --> 00:10:23,380 off on excursion bail we did they like 222 00:10:29,790 --> 00:10:26,980 to play bingo a lot so we traveled over 223 00:10:31,829 --> 00:10:29,800 to New Caney a place they thought was 224 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:31,839 having bingo and at that particular 225 00:10:36,439 --> 00:10:34,510 night there was no bingo so they drove 226 00:10:41,699 --> 00:10:36,449 around trying to find other places and 227 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:41,709 we tended to make our way down 2102 the 228 00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:47,290 actual site the Praetorians after that 229 00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:50,560 and we sent a bright bright object 230 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:52,089 coming from the left side of the road 231 00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:55,569 which would be north to south on tours 232 00:11:00,660 --> 00:10:58,630 like Easton just above that the tree 233 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:00,670 tops of the pine trees right there early 234 00:11:08,650 --> 00:11:05,290 on 150 foot or so and then the object 235 00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:08,660 was a little higher of course for the 236 00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:12,980 there were we come to a stop you know 237 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:19,140 didn't know what it was and and I 238 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:22,410 remember your mom talking about it was 239 00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:26,370 coming did he wasn't coming back or 240 00:11:31,310 --> 00:11:28,680 whatever [\h__\h] religious so I mean uh 241 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:31,320 kind of scared me I crawled in the 242 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:36,480 floorboard and my grandmother continued 243 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:39,930 looking out the window in which Betty 244 00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:41,910 cash she took a little bit further and 245 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:45,300 want to get out and investigate what 246 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:47,370 else did y'all want to know well I've 247 00:11:52,010 --> 00:11:49,110 got a question for you excuse me 248 00:11:54,650 --> 00:11:52,020 about can you tell us can you give us a 249 00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:54,660 description of you know on the light and 250 00:11:59,120 --> 00:11:57,480 and oh you know whatever you can say 251 00:12:01,070 --> 00:11:59,130 about it you know compared to any object 252 00:12:03,260 --> 00:12:01,080 and maybe tell us about the way it moved 253 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:03,270 if you can remember I don't know if 254 00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:06,300 y'all have him up there but down here in 255 00:12:12,020 --> 00:12:09,060 the south we have the water towers you 256 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:12,030 know the four legged water towers that 257 00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:14,910 exceed the main cities and everything 258 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:20,160 with and the object back then I was 259 00:12:24,290 --> 00:12:21,930 comparing it to the size of you know the 260 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:24,300 top of the water tank which I don't 261 00:12:30,110 --> 00:12:28,350 really probably now knowing that are 262 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:30,120 working refineries and everything that 263 00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:35,370 uh it seemed to be about us I don't know 264 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:38,220 100 foot across probably a hundred foot 265 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:40,170 up and down now it's all a fifty foot 266 00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:47,300 yeah yeah I mean that that's a question 267 00:12:51,890 --> 00:12:49,380 that was a question that has been 268 00:12:54,110 --> 00:12:51,900 somewhat confusing over time is to get 269 00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:54,120 an idea of exactly whether the 270 00:12:59,150 --> 00:12:56,220 comparisons to water towers knit from 271 00:13:01,850 --> 00:12:59,160 the ground to the very top or just the 272 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:01,860 tank part up at the top but you know 273 00:13:05,450 --> 00:13:03,510 I've always when wondering how wide 274 00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:05,460 would it be when it came down over the 275 00:13:09,170 --> 00:13:07,740 roadway so if you can you know go ahead 276 00:13:12,340 --> 00:13:09,180 and describe that because this is an 277 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:12,350 important thing one more time please 278 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:15,210 I've there's been some confusion I think 279 00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:18,720 over the years with exactly how large 280 00:13:24,109 --> 00:13:21,360 the the object itself would have been 281 00:13:25,340 --> 00:13:24,119 so if you were all and I think from what 282 00:13:27,859 --> 00:13:25,350 Kurt and I have talked about and I think 283 00:13:30,549 --> 00:13:27,869 it may be correct that you seem to be 284 00:13:32,929 --> 00:13:30,559 the person who even at the young age 285 00:13:34,939 --> 00:13:32,939 seem to identify it as kind of 286 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:34,949 diamond-shaped or have some kind of a 287 00:13:40,789 --> 00:13:37,350 shape that was elongated like that so we 288 00:13:42,289 --> 00:13:40,799 have there was some way just he can keep 289 00:13:45,019 --> 00:13:42,299 continuing we're here to hear what you 290 00:13:47,179 --> 00:13:45,029 have to say while I was a like I say it 291 00:13:49,609 --> 00:13:47,189 was look to me it was like a diamond 292 00:13:51,739 --> 00:13:49,619 shape but the flames coming out the 293 00:13:54,199 --> 00:13:51,749 bottoms not just massive flames you know 294 00:13:57,970 --> 00:13:54,209 just whole thing with radiated by 295 00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:57,980 torrents and it actually looked like it 296 00:14:04,579 --> 00:14:01,199 it was more glowing than on fire so I 297 00:14:05,869 --> 00:14:04,589 mean it was as a kid that seemed to 298 00:14:08,889 --> 00:14:05,879 stick in your head and you know a lot of 299 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:08,899 things you don't remember but this is 300 00:14:14,989 --> 00:14:11,730 specifics and everything about another 301 00:14:17,419 --> 00:14:14,999 object I did remember so on yeah and in 302 00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:17,429 fact that's exactly what we want to hear 303 00:14:21,049 --> 00:14:19,470 the things that you remember even at 304 00:14:24,259 --> 00:14:21,059 that young age if you were in the car 305 00:14:27,169 --> 00:14:24,269 and what you saw when you say it seemed 306 00:14:29,179 --> 00:14:27,179 to be more glowing do you mean you could 307 00:14:32,569 --> 00:14:29,189 actually see the entire outline of the 308 00:14:34,189 --> 00:14:32,579 entire object or after the go see that's 309 00:14:35,979 --> 00:14:34,199 a that's a very important point that I 310 00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:35,989 think everybody wants to understand 311 00:14:44,659 --> 00:14:39,600 right I was it was glowing very uh 312 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:44,669 bright orange yellows and not of course 313 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:46,169 being that age I was amazed with 314 00:14:52,309 --> 00:14:48,569 helicopters and planes just like any 315 00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:52,319 other normal child and I was counting 316 00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:54,600 the helicopters around at which at the 317 00:14:58,809 --> 00:14:56,220 time I didn't know what they were would 318 00:15:02,929 --> 00:14:58,819 later own but I found out they were 319 00:15:05,499 --> 00:15:02,939 double rotor Chinook helicopters that uh 320 00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:05,509 were whatever they were doing 321 00:15:09,759 --> 00:15:07,230 transporting out I know they wasn't 322 00:15:17,499 --> 00:15:09,769 carrying it I don't I don't know that 323 00:15:19,429 --> 00:15:17,509 but yes I don't if I have oh yeah my 324 00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:19,439 apologies I was just saying if I recall 325 00:15:24,139 --> 00:15:22,079 I think from what you're and what you 326 00:15:26,239 --> 00:15:24,149 described us now when the thing when the 327 00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,249 object whatnot came in over the trees 328 00:15:32,329 --> 00:15:28,860 and basically paused over the roadway 329 00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:32,339 there weren't any helicopters over it at 330 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:33,190 that moment 331 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:35,890 that there so if you correct never they 332 00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:37,720 were never over it they were around it 333 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:39,790 and stayed a pretty good distance away 334 00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:44,890 I'd say close as I can remember probably 335 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:50,040 they stayed at least two a three hard 336 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:52,600 feet that's not a hundred yards away 337 00:15:58,350 --> 00:15:54,370 from that you know it could be longer 338 00:15:59,490 --> 00:15:58,360 shorter but just my memory they were you 339 00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,500 know they were all the way around I 340 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:01,600 don't know nothing was blood of course 341 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:03,070 and you know there might have been one 342 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:06,010 or two way above it I've got a lot of 343 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:08,230 questions about that you know even more 344 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:10,060 about the craft and the helicopters but 345 00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:12,490 but uh go ahead with your story and then 346 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:13,990 we're probably going to back up to a few 347 00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:17,680 points so well I said we we pause there 348 00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:19,750 for a minute and I can't remember the 349 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:23,260 exact time it seemed an eternity to 350 00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:24,670 neighbor because I was terrified in the 351 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:27,700 floorboards but uh you know they 352 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:29,650 continued my grandmother was looking 353 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:33,610 through the the windshield and she was 354 00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:36,370 frantic now thinking about the second 355 00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:39,550 coming of Christ and um like I said 356 00:16:43,980 --> 00:16:42,220 Betty got a car to investigate more look 357 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:43,990 at it whatever grandmother's tell her 358 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:45,970 and get back in a car of course I'm 359 00:16:52,860 --> 00:16:47,950 terrified her and floorboard not peak at 360 00:16:54,750 --> 00:16:52,870 around him but that was it's interesting 361 00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:54,760 you mentioned that because we were we 362 00:16:59,490 --> 00:16:56,860 were curious whether the fact that you 363 00:17:01,470 --> 00:16:59,500 had been down low and would peek up 364 00:17:04,740 --> 00:17:01,480 every now and then might have actually 365 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:04,750 the the dashboard for example may have 366 00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:06,850 in fact blocks some of the brightness 367 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:10,000 and given you a little better look at 368 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:11,530 the thing just because of the nature of 369 00:17:15,390 --> 00:17:13,390 the fact that you were short now I was 370 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:15,400 curious when when do you think if you 371 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:18,250 remember did you get the best look at 372 00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:20,410 the object or the shape of it or the 373 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:23,470 longest time to I would say when we was 374 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:26,650 approaching and at the very beginning I 375 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:29,490 was looking and like of course back then 376 00:17:33,540 --> 00:17:32,230 there was no car seats or anything and 377 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:33,550 we stood up from back to seats and 378 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:37,420 everything so my mom had always told me 379 00:17:42,029 --> 00:17:38,830 when we passed a cop 380 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:42,039 you know we're outlaw so she was 381 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,960 see what got me getting the full board 382 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:45,760 so she can get a ticket or whatever so 383 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:48,130 that was just like a natural routine for 384 00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:51,910 me I would see that makes absolute sense 385 00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:53,830 when you think back right as you were 386 00:17:57,150 --> 00:17:55,809 approaching it is when you would really 387 00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:57,160 have a more of a chance probably less 388 00:18:00,990 --> 00:17:58,510 frightening at that instant and get a 389 00:18:02,370 --> 00:18:01,000 better look at it but um go ahead and 390 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:02,380 let Kurt ask some of the questions he's 391 00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:04,510 been doing most of the research recently 392 00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:07,360 on double-checking things that have had 393 00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:09,070 been said afterwards or things that have 394 00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:10,780 come out trying to get down to the to 395 00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:12,780 the real truth of what went on 396 00:18:18,330 --> 00:18:15,480 absolutely yes talking I what I want 397 00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,340 well yeah I want to hear more your story 398 00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:20,799 I get the impression that um and a lot 399 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:22,270 of people don't realize that that that 400 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:23,710 when you first saw it that wasn't 401 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:25,510 apparently the end of the story you 402 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:27,700 continued to see it as you traveled is 403 00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:30,720 that right and I'd like to hear both 404 00:18:35,789 --> 00:18:34,390 yeah just bet the wrists as we pause you 405 00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:35,799 know he's like I said the craft pause 406 00:18:48,029 --> 00:18:45,270 as we went down the road it kind of made 407 00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:48,039 a path towards like Houston and you know 408 00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:49,390 I come up off the seat once we've got 409 00:18:54,899 --> 00:18:51,640 some distance and now you can feel the 410 00:18:56,669 --> 00:18:54,909 heat off of it even inside the car like 411 00:18:58,770 --> 00:18:56,679 I said it my grandmother will she put 412 00:19:02,250 --> 00:18:58,780 her hands on the dash with actually left 413 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,260 an imprint on it we found out later on 414 00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:04,500 we didn't know it at this time but I 415 00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:07,150 don't know where the core is now I wish 416 00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:11,980 I had my hands on but um I say we 417 00:19:21,630 --> 00:19:16,240 continue to travel home and I think they 418 00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:21,640 contemplate about once we got home they 419 00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:23,710 contemplated about calling somebody and 420 00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,260 letting them know and and you know of 421 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:28,000 course back then everybody was going to 422 00:19:31,409 --> 00:19:29,830 think it we were complete morons or 423 00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:31,419 whatever so they were skeptical about 424 00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:35,230 that and my grandmother she was always 425 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:38,440 the adamant woman about uh you know see 426 00:19:45,630 --> 00:19:40,150 she want to find out what it was and she 427 00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:45,640 didn't care what people thought and so 428 00:19:52,409 --> 00:19:49,080 nowadays like a day or two went on I 429 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:52,419 know my grandmother and I'm Betty she 430 00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:55,180 got the worst of it 431 00:20:05,910 --> 00:19:57,820 actually had blisters on my skin on face 432 00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:05,920 had two like symptoms it was and I had 433 00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:08,160 to miss a few days of school out of it 434 00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:11,440 it almost like a sunburn kind of feeling 435 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:14,740 sick now you get first symptoms when you 436 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:21,130 sunburn and I actually they contacted 437 00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:23,920 ello Walker and it was crazy because him 438 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:26,830 his wife all actually also seen it they 439 00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:31,870 were taking trip or whatever maybe they 440 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:35,140 love a certain Dayton it's interesting 441 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:36,730 you bring him up because I had just 442 00:20:41,460 --> 00:20:39,130 pulled up some information I think from 443 00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:41,470 John's book and Kurt and I had talked 444 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:44,620 about this before that I just had an odd 445 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,170 feeling about the fact that he saw those 446 00:20:52,670 --> 00:20:49,840 helicopters a couple of hours or so 447 00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:52,680 later but further back towards the east 448 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:55,750 meaning just not not down south and not 449 00:21:00,030 --> 00:20:57,730 flying out over the coast and and in 450 00:21:02,910 --> 00:21:00,040 fact if if you wanted to try to avoid as 451 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:02,920 much populated areas you could making a 452 00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:04,690 u-turn so to speak and heading back 453 00:21:08,550 --> 00:21:06,580 somewhere over east would have been the 454 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:08,560 place to go so it really it really 455 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:10,540 negated the whole idea that no one else 456 00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:12,070 saw the helicopters or that they weren't 457 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:15,060 Sylar and nothing was flying at me I 458 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:17,710 just so happen to be alone for sneaking 459 00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:20,050 and he was a straight up man you know I 460 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:22,660 don't lie about anything and he's still 461 00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:25,090 same way to the day just a little older 462 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:29,920 and sicker but um I mean I think it's 463 00:21:36,810 --> 00:21:31,630 it's a question that I've always had to 464 00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:36,820 wonder how you would feel about not not 465 00:21:41,010 --> 00:21:39,070 law enforcement in general but the fact 466 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:41,020 that not just you and your grandmother 467 00:21:46,650 --> 00:21:44,410 and Betty but here's another police 468 00:21:49,290 --> 00:21:46,660 officer who he and his wife both saw the 469 00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:49,300 helicopters and everyone who's supposed 470 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:52,000 to be investigating it seems to just be 471 00:21:56,910 --> 00:21:54,550 claiming well nobody had any helicopters 472 00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:56,920 out nobody could find them which isn't 473 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:00,640 enough in effect calling everybody well 474 00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:03,130 I don't know what you'd call that but it 475 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:04,750 kind of wonders makes you wonder how 476 00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:07,510 confident you would feel with anything 477 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:08,710 that you're told by 478 00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:10,540 authorities these days I mean I don't 479 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:12,820 know if you've had feelings after what 480 00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:17,920 I've got I've got you know like um our 481 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:19,780 sheriff's of tap and ten to four over 482 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:22,510 here now he's kind of like he was my 483 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:24,550 little league coach also and you know AC 484 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:27,430 guys on man he helped me out I've helped 485 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:30,970 a lot on my Equusearch several times 486 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:33,370 he's a very stand-up man I had no 487 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:35,290 problem with law enforcement other than 488 00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:39,610 mr. Koerner friend that uh I did the 489 00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:43,270 show with us ORS I don't care too much 490 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:45,550 for him because uh that day in 491 00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:47,370 particular eyes already climb on him 492 00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:53,590 Texas style but uh I would like you to 493 00:22:58,860 --> 00:22:56,580 elaborate on that don't mind my asking 494 00:23:00,270 --> 00:22:58,870 well would come face-to-face you know 495 00:23:02,430 --> 00:23:00,280 they did their little skit and 496 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:02,440 everything and it wasn't no skit it was 497 00:23:06,510 --> 00:23:03,850 just I didn't know that it's bringing 498 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:06,520 the man hands and he said I turned it 499 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:08,770 they asking were there any possibility 500 00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:11,590 but there's any aircraft in that 501 00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:14,500 facility affinity that night he said 502 00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:17,860 absolutely not if you look at the film 503 00:23:24,419 --> 00:23:19,929 you can see my whole face gets red I've 504 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:24,429 got a temper like Irishman so you know 505 00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:28,450 he sent me and into a mold that I was 506 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:30,400 ready to just whoop it you know what I 507 00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:34,570 was so and refrain myself on that yeah 508 00:23:38,130 --> 00:23:36,040 you would you would think at that stage 509 00:23:40,169 --> 00:23:38,140 he would find a better way to express 510 00:23:41,549 --> 00:23:40,179 that knowing that he's in effect calling 511 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:41,559 you and everyone else 512 00:23:47,370 --> 00:23:44,200 they're either liars or badly mistaken 513 00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,380 or something to that effect you know and 514 00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:49,360 I was also pilots that come out later on 515 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:51,670 and said yes they were a mission in the 516 00:23:58,770 --> 00:23:53,890 area in that night but they couldn't 517 00:24:01,710 --> 00:23:58,780 elaborate on so I mean I sound just went 518 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:01,720 dead are we still there yeah okay uh 519 00:24:05,790 --> 00:24:03,610 y'all call me I want to come back to 520 00:24:07,710 --> 00:24:05,800 about the helicopters in a minute devote 521 00:24:10,650 --> 00:24:07,720 just kind of continue with with the 522 00:24:12,270 --> 00:24:10,660 story in order um okay you talked about 523 00:24:15,450 --> 00:24:12,280 a little bit about the way that you felt 524 00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:15,460 I don't know um take um you know what 525 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:17,080 else you know about about the other you 526 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:18,850 know the other witnesses being sick and 527 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:20,170 anything you remember 528 00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:24,930 at the hospital and I don't blame you I 529 00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:27,670 remember you know after a while you know 530 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:29,590 they contacted the authorities and 531 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:31,960 everything I can't remember exactly how 532 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:34,930 the steps went yeah I should look back 533 00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:36,700 at my manuscripts not a little bit more 534 00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:38,950 than you know I can remember the kid 535 00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:40,720 them coming out to the house several 536 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:43,060 times I don't know who they were whether 537 00:24:48,180 --> 00:24:46,450 government officials or what they would 538 00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:48,190 come out and tested for radiation ever 539 00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:50,950 soft and I don't know what they come up 540 00:24:56,430 --> 00:24:53,190 with and never seen any results on that 541 00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:56,440 you know I was told to be careful 542 00:25:01,680 --> 00:24:58,690 because somebody could scoop me up and 543 00:25:04,740 --> 00:25:01,690 take me away so you know I was always 544 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:04,750 nervous about that and then I you know 545 00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:07,210 went to the hospital got checked out and 546 00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:12,960 I can't remember exactly what they said 547 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:15,790 but that's okay just just what you 548 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:20,650 remember um well at the hospital the way 549 00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,450 that the story's been told and and 550 00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:24,640 really I get the kind of feeling that 551 00:25:30,510 --> 00:25:27,550 there's what happened to you your story 552 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:30,520 and then the story that's been on TV so 553 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:32,410 and I want you to straighten that out at 554 00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:34,330 some point but but do you remember how 555 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:42,700 the the story really got out I can't 556 00:25:47,550 --> 00:25:45,730 remember as like it was contact I think 557 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:47,560 a local knows was contacted or something 558 00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:51,910 like that at some point mr. John 559 00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:52,480 Schuessler 560 00:25:58,740 --> 00:25:55,270 at the top news with NASA stuntman to 561 00:26:00,900 --> 00:25:58,750 help us out and I guess he was trying to 562 00:26:02,970 --> 00:26:00,910 have a territory and get it out there 563 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:02,980 you know so looking just come up with 564 00:26:06,690 --> 00:26:04,510 some kind of conclusion or what's wrong 565 00:26:08,580 --> 00:26:06,700 and you know get some help on that the 566 00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:08,590 medical part of it cuz you know my 567 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:13,150 family wasn't rich for a minute we just 568 00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:15,370 want to know what happened to you know I 569 00:26:21,330 --> 00:26:19,180 mean I thought my whole life and still 570 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:21,340 do to the day sometimes if somebody says 571 00:26:27,150 --> 00:26:24,670 the wrong things about it you know okay 572 00:26:29,610 --> 00:26:27,160 they that right there pretty much built 573 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:29,620 my temper up and you know somebody comes 574 00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:31,510 across the wrong I can't tell you what 575 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:33,340 happened today 576 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:35,470 cuz I'll knock you out vo feelings about 577 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:42,610 it style well um yeah I don't know how 578 00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:44,470 comfortable you are talking about those 579 00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:45,790 feelings but I you know certainly 580 00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:47,320 understandable and you've got years of 581 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:51,160 frustration and and you know may you may 582 00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:53,110 contribute it to the you know the the 583 00:27:00,300 --> 00:26:55,240 downfall of the hell to your grandmother 584 00:27:03,690 --> 00:27:00,310 and Betty so um uh let's see I wanted to 585 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:03,700 ask you too about well um what was your 586 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:05,590 at you and you bound remember this 587 00:27:09,180 --> 00:27:07,030 because it lasted the rest of your life 588 00:27:12,180 --> 00:27:09,190 how did how did this affect the way 589 00:27:13,890 --> 00:27:12,190 people related to you you know did where 590 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:13,900 you treat him more as a celebrity or do 591 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:16,300 you get picked on count deco yeah I 592 00:27:20,610 --> 00:27:18,850 wasn't celebrity as well you know I had 593 00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:20,620 my friends I had a lot of great friends 594 00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:23,880 there in Dayton and I stood to the day 595 00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:27,520 supported me 100% but there was also the 596 00:27:32,940 --> 00:27:30,100 other ones that want to play you know 597 00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:32,950 bully type and uh come a pin and mouth 598 00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:36,280 off back then I didn't care if they was 599 00:27:40,290 --> 00:27:38,260 six-foot-seven if they said it in the 600 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:40,300 wrong place in the wrong time I was 601 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:44,410 trying to get on and it just built a lot 602 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:45,910 of anger inside me you know because I 603 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:48,970 know where I seen and for them ridiculed 604 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:52,810 me and then go happen here so I mean 605 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:54,970 it's obviously affected me mentally 606 00:28:00,810 --> 00:27:57,370 throughout all this you know even to the 607 00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:00,820 day with my temper was I have a hard 608 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:02,700 time controlling her and you're not 609 00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:04,720 batteries no one get this story out 610 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:07,240 there is so my daughter when she grows 611 00:28:12,330 --> 00:28:09,850 up you know she'll know exactly what 612 00:28:16,980 --> 00:28:12,340 happened and maybe hopefully find the 613 00:28:19,050 --> 00:28:16,990 truth someone there well I wanted to ask 614 00:28:21,210 --> 00:28:19,060 you it well yeah I've got a thousand 615 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:21,220 questions for you but as far as the 616 00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,110 truth him you ever come across anything 617 00:28:29,690 --> 00:28:25,360 that you thought was a was a good 618 00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:29,700 lead-in the source of uh and and also 619 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:32,820 just what do you think the object was 620 00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:35,770 I'm firm believer that it was an object 621 00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:38,580 that the government was experimenting on 622 00:28:44,130 --> 00:28:41,830 and at that time there wasn't very many 623 00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:44,140 people there and that slight pass you 624 00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,790 know they probably wouldn't have seen 625 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:47,200 too many people 626 00:28:52,889 --> 00:28:51,370 was it wasn't built in the subdivisions 627 00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:52,899 and all that yet it was still just 628 00:29:02,190 --> 00:28:58,090 wide-open woods few people up there so I 629 00:29:04,529 --> 00:29:02,200 mean that's that's my theory on it there 630 00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:04,539 is a some kind of experiment they was 631 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:07,750 working on and we just have to come in 632 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:14,289 contact with it my golem go ahead 633 00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:17,230 oh the the other part of that was did 634 00:29:24,029 --> 00:29:20,799 you have any uh any ideas for a month 635 00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:24,039 oh maybe you know in particular base it 636 00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,049 was from I mean you know have you gotten 637 00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:29,440 um just any clues whatsoever 638 00:29:33,930 --> 00:29:31,929 well there was a theory that they come 639 00:29:38,580 --> 00:29:33,940 up with when we did that one show that 640 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:38,590 uh it come off an aircraft carrier and 641 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:40,510 kind of went through up around 642 00:29:44,879 --> 00:29:42,730 I don't know familiar with tensions with 643 00:29:47,879 --> 00:29:44,889 orange Beaumont area maybe even on the 644 00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:47,889 Louisiana side it made like a North Loop 645 00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:51,480 off the Gulf kind of tracked back to the 646 00:29:57,570 --> 00:29:55,720 West and then come back up you know I 647 00:30:00,509 --> 00:29:57,580 don't know if I was trying to stay in a 648 00:30:02,070 --> 00:30:00,519 secluded areas or what but and I don't 649 00:30:03,659 --> 00:30:02,080 know if that's just something that they 650 00:30:06,690 --> 00:30:03,669 wrapped up I don't know where they got 651 00:30:08,669 --> 00:30:06,700 that information from but I mean it 652 00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:08,679 seems feasible that so I don't carry 653 00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:11,289 terry somewhere from aircraft carrier in 654 00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:16,289 the Gulf but I have no proof to you know 655 00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:20,380 send back me up all that well we're 656 00:30:24,629 --> 00:30:22,240 looking for clues and one of the things 657 00:30:26,639 --> 00:30:24,639 that might help us if if it was a 658 00:30:30,330 --> 00:30:26,649 project and you know everybody's got 659 00:30:32,190 --> 00:30:30,340 their own theory um do you uh do you 660 00:30:34,409 --> 00:30:32,200 remember enough about the way it looked 661 00:30:35,879 --> 00:30:34,419 to describe how it flew because if we 662 00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:35,889 can do something about what was 663 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:37,870 propelling it apparently there was no 664 00:30:45,659 --> 00:30:41,010 wings just you know how do I let it move 665 00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:45,669 it was it was floating and I mean am I 666 00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,710 out of the child I was floating and know 667 00:30:52,169 --> 00:30:49,840 it like I say you're floating have been 668 00:30:55,289 --> 00:30:52,179 carried by cables but I've never seen no 669 00:30:59,369 --> 00:30:55,299 cables or nothing so I'm saying it was I 670 00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:59,379 don't know what the word that is not 671 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:01,120 technical word but 672 00:31:05,639 --> 00:31:03,129 it was actually just kind of floating 673 00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:05,649 along and it looked like the helicopters 674 00:31:11,310 --> 00:31:09,279 were pretty much escorting 675 00:31:12,899 --> 00:31:11,320 Colby I'm sure we're going to talk about 676 00:31:15,019 --> 00:31:12,909 the helicopters because that's kind of a 677 00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,029 fascinating part of this but are you 678 00:31:18,899 --> 00:31:17,440 willing to take calls if we have them 679 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:18,909 come in because I have a number here I 680 00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:22,090 can give up yeah sure okay the number 681 00:31:27,629 --> 00:31:25,720 here is six oh three nine six seven four 682 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:27,639 row three oh if anyone wants to give a 683 00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:31,090 call that's six oh three nine six seven 684 00:31:37,109 --> 00:31:35,740 four OH three oh let's can we talk a 685 00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,119 little bit about the helicopters because 686 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:39,039 I've heard numbers sometimes you hear 687 00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:41,529 that there was like a hundred of them or 688 00:31:47,789 --> 00:31:43,990 there was fifteen of them and in a 689 00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:47,799 letter telling us we wanted there was 23 690 00:31:54,869 --> 00:31:50,049 scenic helicopters not ready for a fact 691 00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:54,879 because I counted them and I do remember 692 00:31:58,889 --> 00:31:56,799 that distinctly like I said I was 693 00:32:02,310 --> 00:31:58,899 fascinated with helicopters so that's 694 00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:02,320 you know that's pretty much what I was 695 00:32:07,889 --> 00:32:04,990 looking at in there Chinook you're 696 00:32:09,749 --> 00:32:07,899 pretty sure yes sir I was a double rotor 697 00:32:12,060 --> 00:32:09,759 she looks I don't know that Dan but 698 00:32:16,489 --> 00:32:12,070 after years of research and looking into 699 00:32:18,779 --> 00:32:16,499 it yet that's definitely what the world 700 00:32:22,019 --> 00:32:18,789 I've got a question about about the 701 00:32:24,629 --> 00:32:22,029 helicopters and you know I like I've 702 00:32:26,460 --> 00:32:24,639 heard a lot of the things from the you 703 00:32:28,350 --> 00:32:26,470 know reading reading John Schuster's 704 00:32:30,419 --> 00:32:28,360 book and the magazine articles so I 705 00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:30,429 really won't hear your side of it but I 706 00:32:36,899 --> 00:32:33,519 have heard that that helicopters were 707 00:32:38,489 --> 00:32:36,909 observed at um when you were coming home 708 00:32:39,899 --> 00:32:38,499 to date and you remember anything about 709 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:39,909 that I mean that means there could have 710 00:32:46,139 --> 00:32:42,690 been even more than the 23 you counted I 711 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:46,149 don't remember that that part okay 712 00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:48,330 that's fair enough 713 00:32:54,899 --> 00:32:52,360 hone endeavor a long time oh well you 714 00:32:57,899 --> 00:32:54,909 know that's I mean I remember seeing I'm 715 00:33:01,499 --> 00:32:57,909 a member seeing the helicopters with our 716 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:01,509 view till we got like on 1968 it back 717 00:33:06,299 --> 00:33:04,720 towards Dayton but you know then all 718 00:33:09,419 --> 00:33:06,309 frantic and everything I was kind of up 719 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:09,429 and down so well that's a good that's a 720 00:33:13,289 --> 00:33:10,720 good point I'm glad you mentioned that 721 00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:13,299 because some of the stories make it 722 00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:14,830 sound 723 00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:16,600 that fear continued and you're afraid of 724 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:19,180 helicopters later and and it just you 725 00:33:23,070 --> 00:33:20,410 know I got depression that you might 726 00:33:25,620 --> 00:33:23,080 have had a post-traumatic stress do you 727 00:33:29,490 --> 00:33:25,630 think that is fair to say that's 728 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:29,500 definitely fair to say and it stresses 729 00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:30,130 me out 730 00:33:36,660 --> 00:33:31,600 you know a lot is talking about it and 731 00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:36,670 people you know ridiculing so yes sir 732 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:38,470 that's something to stick with me and 733 00:33:43,290 --> 00:33:40,990 rest of my life but as far as fear 734 00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:43,300 helicopters noms so fast Mary Williams 735 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:45,880 and the helicopters wasn't what I scared 736 00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:48,970 of not time I don't know a sense of 737 00:33:53,010 --> 00:33:51,580 safety maybe cause I thought maybe our 738 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:53,020 governor was taking care of the 739 00:33:59,490 --> 00:33:56,710 situation if it was one listener another 740 00:34:00,930 --> 00:33:59,500 question I and you know at your age you 741 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:00,940 may not have memory this but I want to 742 00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:03,570 ask the question your grandmother from 743 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:06,070 and I've heard recording her in her own 744 00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,140 words originally thought that this might 745 00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:10,960 be the second coming and I don't know if 746 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:13,060 you felt the same way but you know what 747 00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,610 point did you change your mind to think 748 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:17,679 that the object itself was military 749 00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:19,570 rather than you know that this was some 750 00:34:24,930 --> 00:34:22,600 kind of spiritual event I never I didn't 751 00:34:27,419 --> 00:34:24,940 know my grandmother she tend to carry 752 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:27,429 things load for she was very biblical 753 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:30,910 and religious so I mean I never really 754 00:34:34,890 --> 00:34:33,310 thought that it was a second coming but 755 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:34,900 at the time as a child you know you're 756 00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:38,110 listening and you're terrified you're 757 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:40,260 not sure what's going on you're not sure 758 00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:48,600 we're getting back to the UFO again 759 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:51,790 because I'm you know that's it the other 760 00:34:55,230 --> 00:34:53,650 than the injuries that's really the star 761 00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:55,240 of the story I just want to know just 762 00:35:00,570 --> 00:34:58,000 when you came upon it you know if you 763 00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:00,580 compare the brightness was this like a 764 00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:03,070 was this like a sunset or an explosion 765 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:04,960 just what can you say what it kind of 766 00:35:15,390 --> 00:35:11,440 looked like without it right just did 767 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:15,400 just the impression cuz I um you know 768 00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:17,710 with the fear that it inspired you know 769 00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:21,550 I'm just curious as to what kind of you 770 00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,960 know just what to look like I mean I 771 00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:24,400 wasn't there and hoping you could tell 772 00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:27,670 us and just kind of looked like it was 773 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:29,160 on fire 774 00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:36,490 but and unless it look like his own fire 775 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:39,180 going with fired from now the bottom 776 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:43,690 okay they're not really a fire just 777 00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:49,390 glowing ball of glowing since he 778 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:50,860 occurred heard I'd like to ask him a 779 00:35:54,030 --> 00:35:52,210 question since we're talking about the 780 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:54,040 object and a little while ago when he 781 00:35:57,330 --> 00:35:55,510 was talking about being on the floor 782 00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,340 board and he made the comment that he 783 00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:00,160 could feel the heat from the object even 784 00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:02,920 even inside the car where he was which 785 00:36:07,890 --> 00:36:05,350 definitely definitely suggests that 786 00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:07,900 right underneath the object should have 787 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:10,000 been that much you know that much hotter 788 00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:12,970 but there's always been some question 789 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:16,720 over where exactly on that I think it's 790 00:36:23,310 --> 00:36:18,850 a five or seven mile straight stretch of 791 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:23,320 road it actually occurred and the course 792 00:36:27,870 --> 00:36:25,810 the discussion about some claims that 793 00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:27,880 the road may have been pulled up and 794 00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:30,550 taken away but then John when he got 795 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:32,950 involved a couple of months later had 796 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:34,690 written that they went back out there 797 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:37,530 and found the exact place on the road 798 00:36:42,090 --> 00:36:39,970 but I drove down there when I went to 799 00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:42,100 talk to your grandmother and I realized 800 00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,500 then that like you were saying it's not 801 00:36:48,210 --> 00:36:46,240 developed and there's hardly any lights 802 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:48,220 and no nothing and at nine o'clock at 803 00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:50,770 night under those circumstances man I 804 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:52,270 don't know how easy it would be to 805 00:36:58,620 --> 00:36:54,910 really know exactly what 100-foot 806 00:37:00,240 --> 00:36:58,630 stretch of that road you know all of 807 00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:00,250 this had taken place on and I was 808 00:37:05,970 --> 00:37:02,830 curious if you over the years ever went 809 00:37:10,050 --> 00:37:05,980 back there or ever in your opinion found 810 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:10,060 where you think the actual spot on you 811 00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:13,570 might have been and hang on just a 812 00:37:16,830 --> 00:37:14,980 minute can you can you hold that thought 813 00:37:19,650 --> 00:37:16,840 gentlemen we have a caller on the line 814 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:19,660 caller go ahead and introduce yourself 815 00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:23,490 if you would please hi my name is Peggy 816 00:37:30,990 --> 00:37:29,230 okay hi is questioned I don't know if 817 00:37:34,740 --> 00:37:31,000 maybe I missed it I don't think I did 818 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:34,750 but I'm very curious about the women in 819 00:37:38,670 --> 00:37:36,330 the car and what they were saying 820 00:37:42,089 --> 00:37:38,680 especially the one that got outside of 821 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:42,099 the car wasn't she at some point struck 822 00:37:48,299 --> 00:37:43,930 I dream of light and that's how she got 823 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:48,309 so badly radiated well it was the heat 824 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:50,170 coming off of I could feel the heat 825 00:37:57,210 --> 00:37:53,140 through the car you know but through the 826 00:37:59,940 --> 00:37:57,220 windshield and I'm not exactly sure what 827 00:38:01,890 --> 00:37:59,950 she was saying you know they were also 828 00:38:04,289 --> 00:38:01,900 Frank you know wasn't sure what was 829 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:04,299 going on I think she fell under the 830 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:06,910 curse and uh she was more than an 831 00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:08,170 impression and she won't know what it 832 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:10,420 was she wouldn't have scared it my 833 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:12,970 grandmother good for her another 834 00:38:18,059 --> 00:38:15,690 question when you first saw this object 835 00:38:20,670 --> 00:38:18,069 were the helicopters right there from 836 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:20,680 the very beginning they was it was with 837 00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:22,690 it the whole way yes ma'am it was cause 838 00:38:26,910 --> 00:38:24,160 I'm from the from the moment you first 839 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:26,920 sighted it yes ma'am that's why you know 840 00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:36,059 yeah that's no problem ma'am thank you 841 00:38:38,309 --> 00:38:37,599 so much for coming on and sharing your 842 00:38:41,130 --> 00:38:38,319 story 843 00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:41,140 no thanks for listening thanks for being 844 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,640 so strong it's horrible God do it thanks 845 00:38:50,549 --> 00:38:47,680 Peggy all right bye-bye 846 00:38:52,769 --> 00:38:50,559 all right so we're back here and go 847 00:38:54,930 --> 00:38:52,779 ahead Chris on you had just a quick 848 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:54,940 recap of your question if you would well 849 00:38:59,400 --> 00:38:57,190 the question came up because Curt and I 850 00:39:04,349 --> 00:38:59,410 actually began to really realize how 851 00:39:07,319 --> 00:39:04,359 confused we were over the exact place on 852 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:07,329 that perfectly straight stretch of road 853 00:39:11,819 --> 00:39:09,249 where the incident would have occurred 854 00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:11,829 because I realize it's you know it was 855 00:39:16,709 --> 00:39:14,440 dark no light perfectly straight and 856 00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:16,719 suddenly all of this happens and I 857 00:39:20,130 --> 00:39:18,609 believe your grandmother had said that 858 00:39:22,739 --> 00:39:20,140 she even didn't go back into that area 859 00:39:25,259 --> 00:39:22,749 for weeks afterwards and then John 860 00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:25,269 Schuessler came along and apparently two 861 00:39:29,069 --> 00:39:26,950 months after the fact went there and 862 00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:29,079 made some statements that they found a 863 00:39:32,219 --> 00:39:30,670 place where the road had been damaged 864 00:39:34,650 --> 00:39:32,229 and they were knew exactly where they 865 00:39:37,170 --> 00:39:34,660 were but at the same time we've heard 866 00:39:40,049 --> 00:39:37,180 the stories and even I believe I've 867 00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:40,059 maybe misquoted them that but the road 868 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:41,680 had been chopped up and hauled off so 869 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:43,450 the question came up well how do we 870 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:45,729 really know exactly and could anybody 871 00:39:51,539 --> 00:39:49,690 have honestly found the exact 100 strip 872 00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,549 foot stretch where all of this took 873 00:39:55,770 --> 00:39:54,160 place but did you after all that time in 874 00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:55,780 all these years have you ever gone back 875 00:40:01,230 --> 00:39:58,480 and looked around and feel that you ever 876 00:40:04,050 --> 00:40:01,240 were able to locate exactly where the 877 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,060 sound taking place there was a there was 878 00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:06,640 only one stole on that road on the north 879 00:40:11,370 --> 00:40:09,910 side of the road 20100 and it was kind 880 00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:11,380 of a landmark so from there 881 00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:15,280 what was that I've estimated probably 882 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:19,780 buck nylon hats and miles and you can 883 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:22,930 also tell sorely after people in the 884 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:25,330 area I'm not sure who they talked to but 885 00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:26,890 they said they'd seen black trucks come 886 00:40:30,839 --> 00:40:28,390 in at night like dump trucks and 887 00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:30,849 equipment and actually dug that 888 00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:34,270 fictional road up and we paved it scene 889 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:36,609 that's that was my question and reading 890 00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:38,650 what Kurt had because your mother or 891 00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:40,960 grandmother rather told me that exactly 892 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:44,710 which I began to think okay well when 893 00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:46,530 you know when did that occur because 894 00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:49,599 John wrote that two months I think he 895 00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:51,430 got involved around February 22nd and 896 00:40:54,930 --> 00:40:53,440 around the very last part of February he 897 00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:54,940 actually had gone back out there and 898 00:41:01,470 --> 00:40:57,970 claimed that they found the place on the 899 00:41:04,170 --> 00:41:01,480 road where the damage had been which 900 00:41:08,220 --> 00:41:04,180 would suggest either the road was hauled 901 00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:08,230 away after that or they hadn't found the 902 00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:10,060 you know John wasn't in the rights it 903 00:41:13,770 --> 00:41:11,470 was confusing if you understand I mean 904 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:13,780 it's like what happened when so I just 905 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:15,220 would never quite sure at this point 906 00:41:18,839 --> 00:41:17,170 even with my own you know my own 907 00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:18,849 understanding of how things happened if 908 00:41:24,060 --> 00:41:21,070 you were if you were went back later or 909 00:41:26,579 --> 00:41:24,070 you're sometime later on and really had 910 00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:26,589 a good idea of exactly where that would 911 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:28,240 because if the heat was as intense as 912 00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:30,730 you say I can't help but imagine there 913 00:41:36,540 --> 00:41:33,730 would have been dead grass dead trees 914 00:41:38,430 --> 00:41:36,550 you know shortly after sometime so now 915 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:38,440 there was it was a long time before I 916 00:41:42,450 --> 00:41:40,690 went down that road probably I was I 917 00:41:45,660 --> 00:41:42,460 stayed away from maybe I want to go down 918 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:45,670 today and bring back you know bring back 919 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:49,170 old memories but we actually did show 920 00:41:58,380 --> 00:41:52,890 with another contractor out of 921 00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,390 California and we went back to core 922 00:42:01,940 --> 00:41:59,920 samples of aware of the road was 923 00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:01,950 supposed to be pulled up mr. Schussler 924 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:05,980 he worked for NASA and he was on top of 925 00:42:11,580 --> 00:42:09,370 things I mean he was a wonderful man 926 00:42:14,130 --> 00:42:11,590 now sometimes wondered that he knows 927 00:42:19,830 --> 00:42:14,140 something that was helping us out and 928 00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:19,840 working for NASA so long yeah Colby I 929 00:42:25,350 --> 00:42:21,880 want to ask you something when I first 930 00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:25,360 contacted you you were a little hesitant 931 00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:26,800 to come on the show well I say a little 932 00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:29,440 more than hesitant and it's basically 933 00:42:34,650 --> 00:42:31,960 painful for you to talk about this 934 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:34,660 how have you you know how have you fared 935 00:42:39,540 --> 00:42:36,730 with that whole thing over all these 936 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:39,550 years I took me a long time to get over 937 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:41,410 and on I guess after my grandmother 938 00:42:47,220 --> 00:42:45,550 passed away I kind of thought because 939 00:42:49,470 --> 00:42:47,230 she was so adamant about selling you 940 00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:49,480 know finding out I felt like that was 941 00:42:58,890 --> 00:42:55,920 I'm sorry I felt like that was my no 942 00:43:00,570 --> 00:42:58,900 tribute you know what she believed in 943 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:00,580 the key fight and try to find out what 944 00:43:07,110 --> 00:43:05,410 actually happened and it took me a long 945 00:43:08,490 --> 00:43:07,120 time till I got older and I was able to 946 00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:08,500 deal with the fact that I didn't care 947 00:43:14,610 --> 00:43:10,980 what anybody said you know and I'm still 948 00:43:16,020 --> 00:43:14,620 not too excited about talking about it 949 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:16,030 but I'm that's one thing that I'm trying 950 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:18,970 to work through process for being angry 951 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:21,850 and mad and I'm just trying to fight 952 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:23,650 through you know and go and move on with 953 00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:25,330 my life and try to find out what 954 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:27,160 happened you know surely somebody who 955 00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:30,730 knows a ex-pilot or something maybe 956 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:33,220 somebody to talk about it now and 957 00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:35,170 understand what me and my family went 958 00:43:39,870 --> 00:43:37,180 through you know have the heart to help 959 00:43:41,550 --> 00:43:39,880 us out with some sir what do you call 960 00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:41,560 this oh pardon me do you feel as though 961 00:43:47,370 --> 00:43:44,880 the if you had to put the blame on 962 00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:47,380 something out there do you think it you 963 00:43:50,670 --> 00:43:48,430 more or less think it might be an 964 00:43:54,270 --> 00:43:50,680 experimental government craft and that's 965 00:43:56,310 --> 00:43:54,280 what a lot of people have more or less 966 00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:56,320 thought over the years do you are 967 00:43:59,940 --> 00:43:58,510 there's not a doubt in my mind yeah do 968 00:44:03,720 --> 00:43:59,950 you actually blame the government then 969 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:03,730 for this whole thing yes I sure do you 970 00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:05,290 know I wouldn't be so bad I just come 971 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:08,350 out and knit to it and put it behind it 972 00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:10,210 you know man instead of leaving people 973 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:12,040 wondering what was a little green man 974 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:14,410 theory which I don't believe if I 975 00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:16,330 haven't seen it I don't believe it what 976 00:44:22,540 --> 00:44:18,700 I've seen that night everything points 977 00:44:24,130 --> 00:44:22,550 back to the government and know whatever 978 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:24,140 still many different let's say come up 979 00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:25,610 with some other theory and then tell me 980 00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:26,840 exactly what happened 981 00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,300 well call me I if if you don't mind 982 00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,040 exchange some information with me over 983 00:44:34,750 --> 00:44:33,200 the show I came across a researcher and 984 00:44:38,020 --> 00:44:34,760 he had a very good suggestion that if 985 00:44:40,090 --> 00:44:38,030 you were to sign a privacy waiver and 986 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:40,100 you submit a Freedom of Information Act 987 00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:42,650 request that might allow some documents 988 00:44:47,050 --> 00:44:44,510 that would otherwise be withheld to be 989 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:47,060 released now that's a long shot but you 990 00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:48,770 know as far as I know that hasn't been 991 00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:52,640 tried would you go along with that yes 992 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:54,500 sir I sure would well you know like I 993 00:45:00,100 --> 00:44:57,410 said I'm a pipe supervisor and I file 994 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:00,110 you know no I really don't know anything 995 00:45:04,990 --> 00:45:01,970 about doing all that so if I had 996 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:05,000 somebody guiding me I wouldn't be more 997 00:45:09,340 --> 00:45:07,490 than glad to do that we just need your 998 00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:09,350 name on a piece of paper and we'll do 999 00:45:17,230 --> 00:45:14,320 the rest okay long as the paper is a 1000 00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:17,240 well defined and nobody's trying to step 1001 00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:18,470 on my nobody know what I mean 1002 00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:21,380 absolutely yeah you you can you can 1003 00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:23,390 check it out no this is this is well 1004 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:24,800 look we're trying to look out for you 1005 00:45:28,690 --> 00:45:26,450 too I mean we're we're curious but 1006 00:45:31,390 --> 00:45:28,700 certainly don't want to you know do to 1007 00:45:32,770 --> 00:45:31,400 get you hurt in any way I'm not worried 1008 00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:32,780 about the government's they won't manage 1009 00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:34,880 them get me I ain't goin down fite me 1010 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:38,030 taking my guns either so I'm on gotta 1011 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:40,610 takes it I'll talk to him but yes that 1012 00:45:44,830 --> 00:45:43,010 definitely I really want to do that I 1013 00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:44,840 don't have much time we got left one 1014 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:46,310 question I had for you was yeah I 1015 00:45:50,830 --> 00:45:49,130 mentioned this briefly earlier do what 1016 00:45:52,810 --> 00:45:50,840 up what do you think people have gotten 1017 00:45:56,830 --> 00:45:52,820 wrong in covering the story over the 1018 00:45:59,820 --> 00:45:56,840 years I mean you know everybody wants to 1019 00:46:02,560 --> 00:45:59,830 hear the theory right hands and all that 1020 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:02,570 and everybody's entitled to believe what 1021 00:46:08,370 --> 00:46:04,730 they want whether it happened or didn't 1022 00:46:11,170 --> 00:46:08,380 write know what I think that night and 1023 00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:11,180 like I said if I haven't seen the Green 1024 00:46:16,420 --> 00:46:13,030 Man I don't believe it 1025 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:16,430 you know until I see one then what's up 1026 00:46:21,850 --> 00:46:19,730 but as of right now I'm a firm believer 1027 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:21,860 and what I said then the government has 1028 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:24,050 got a secret they're keeping from us 1029 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:29,210 just like many other seekers so until 1030 00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,130 something else is told to me and behind 1031 00:46:40,510 --> 00:46:36,800 the government officials 1032 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:40,520 that's what i'ma bleep to that well some 1033 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:41,930 people aren't is interested in this 1034 00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:44,090 because aliens aren't involved into them 1035 00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:46,340 I say that whenever muscles the 1036 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:48,080 government's using to keep your case 1037 00:46:52,210 --> 00:46:50,210 secret they would keep to use anything 1038 00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:52,220 else secret so anything we learn about 1039 00:46:58,900 --> 00:46:54,680 this would help any other case so you 1040 00:47:02,140 --> 00:46:58,910 know it would help everyone and I would 1041 00:47:04,270 --> 00:47:02,150 own I mean I'm not saying it that there 1042 00:47:06,359 --> 00:47:04,280 wasn't some type of alien form involved 1043 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:06,369 let's show me some proof you know I mean 1044 00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:09,170 and if they showed me some proof and it 1045 00:47:13,570 --> 00:47:11,990 is and and I believe it but still the 1046 00:47:16,780 --> 00:47:13,580 government knows whatever happened I 1047 00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:16,790 think has a citizen and everybody else 1048 00:47:22,690 --> 00:47:21,020 has a right to know I think our time is 1049 00:47:25,810 --> 00:47:22,700 short I just I didn't want to ask you 1050 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:25,820 about the the legal case do you have any 1051 00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:27,710 memories of that and what what you think 1052 00:47:34,780 --> 00:47:32,030 might have gone wrong what's that oh the 1053 00:47:36,820 --> 00:47:34,790 the lawyer Peter Gerson was trying to 1054 00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:36,830 take the case to court do you remember 1055 00:47:43,810 --> 00:47:41,590 anything about that yes I remember 1056 00:47:45,940 --> 00:47:43,820 looking at the document like I said I 1057 00:47:49,330 --> 00:47:45,950 kind of went to look loose mode and 1058 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:49,340 didn't I wouldn't go along with a lot 1059 00:47:53,590 --> 00:47:51,530 after I got older you know of course we 1060 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:53,600 did that's incredible on Good Morning 1061 00:47:59,680 --> 00:47:57,410 America and all that patellas and I was 1062 00:48:01,680 --> 00:47:59,690 just me as traveling and wasn't worried 1063 00:48:03,550 --> 00:48:01,690 about a good actor and I got older I 1064 00:48:06,220 --> 00:48:03,560 don't want to have anything to do with 1065 00:48:09,820 --> 00:48:06,230 it I got in touch with a couple of 1066 00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:09,830 people had covered the case and the you 1067 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:11,300 mentioned that's incredible Robert 1068 00:48:15,849 --> 00:48:13,490 Zimmerman who was a photographer he said 1069 00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:15,859 he remembered you three very well it was 1070 00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:17,780 an incredible story and he said I spoke 1071 00:48:20,740 --> 00:48:19,190 with him over a three-day period and 1072 00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:20,750 they seemed absolutely credible and 1073 00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:22,910 honest in their account and most people 1074 00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:24,710 that I've been able to reach that they'd 1075 00:48:27,940 --> 00:48:25,730 ever dealt with you 1076 00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:27,950 you know they felt that that the story 1077 00:48:33,460 --> 00:48:29,420 was true and they can't say what it was 1078 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:33,470 but the now I think there were some 1079 00:48:37,390 --> 00:48:35,330 problems in the investigation by John 1080 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:37,400 Shuster some things are inaccurate but I 1081 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:39,530 think anybody's taking a look at it 1082 00:48:44,890 --> 00:48:41,450 feels something happened but just can't 1083 00:48:47,710 --> 00:48:44,900 say what it was if anybody ever knew my 1084 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:47,720 grandmother she was the most honest 1085 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:49,610 person here ever me and she did 1086 00:48:54,430 --> 00:48:52,850 about nothing you know I mean there may 1087 00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:54,440 have been some things that she didn't 1088 00:49:03,550 --> 00:48:57,670 quite remember get it right you know but 1089 00:49:06,970 --> 00:49:03,560 I'm falling for well Kobe it's been a 1090 00:49:09,610 --> 00:49:06,980 real pleasure talking to you today and I 1091 00:49:12,010 --> 00:49:09,620 really appreciate the courage you had to 1092 00:49:13,210 --> 00:49:12,020 come forward and actually you know give 1093 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:13,220 your side of the story 1094 00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:14,690 I appreciate y'all giving me the 1095 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:16,550 opportunity to come on and um I could 1096 00:49:20,140 --> 00:49:17,810 say anything that y'all can do to help 1097 00:49:23,260 --> 00:49:20,150 me out to find out the truth especially 1098 00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:23,270 for my grandmother and I'd be more than 1099 00:49:31,540 --> 00:49:28,460 grateful yeah well thanks also I want to 1100 00:49:33,970 --> 00:49:31,550 thank you both Kurt and also Chris for 1101 00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:33,980 coming on and I don't think we had too 1102 00:49:37,780 --> 00:49:36,260 many glitches to show so for a live show 1103 00:49:39,940 --> 00:49:37,790 the first one I think it went fairly 1104 00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:39,950 well poor Chris you kept dropping out 1105 00:49:43,150 --> 00:49:42,110 nobody knows that but critten kidding I 1106 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:43,160 have so many questions 1107 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:45,650 that's my internet your internet cut out 1108 00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:47,450 about five times I say to go away and 1109 00:49:52,030 --> 00:49:50,390 come back no kidding what a pain you got 1110 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:52,040 we have one minute left Chris if you 1111 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:54,050 have a quick question 1112 00:49:58,300 --> 00:49:56,330 take your best one I think I cover him 1113 00:50:00,910 --> 00:49:58,310 in a dozen times but I was asking about 1114 00:50:03,070 --> 00:50:00,920 the effects that if he recalled and I'd 1115 00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:03,080 read something about ridges on the 1116 00:50:07,810 --> 00:50:05,270 fingernails whether those showed up 1117 00:50:09,970 --> 00:50:07,820 within days or weeks or if he recalls 1118 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:09,980 anything about that about effects on his 1119 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:12,770 fingernails right no sir I doubt we'll 1120 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:14,570 call anything about that I listen I wish 1121 00:50:21,610 --> 00:50:18,850 idea like sales seven-years-old done and 1122 00:50:24,550 --> 00:50:21,620 locked out this is it for the show 1123 00:50:27,490 --> 00:50:24,560 tonight I want to thank you all of you 1124 00:50:29,020 --> 00:50:27,500 for joining us and we have Carrie Lloyd 1125 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:29,030 white house he does the music for the 1126 00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:31,370 show he's a fan of the show and he's in 1127 00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:33,710 Ireland and we'll be back next week's 1128 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:36,880 Amaranto and it looks like we may have 1129 00:50:41,980 --> 00:50:39,530 Richard Dolan on next week not sure 1130 00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:41,990 right now but he gave a thumbs up so 1131 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:44,680 we'll we'll be back same time next week 1132 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:48,770 thanks guys Thank You Colby thank you 1133 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:50,570 thanks thanks very much nice talking to 1134 00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:52,010 you 1135 00:50:57,100 --> 00:50:54,800 so that's it for a live show before I go 1136 00:50:59,890 --> 00:50:57,110 I do want to say that if anyone has any 1137 00:51:03,400 --> 00:50:59,900 information at all on the cash landrum 1138 00:51:06,609 --> 00:51:03,410 case please do contact me Martin 1139 00:51:08,799 --> 00:51:06,619 to podcast UFO comm I will pass any of 1140 00:51:10,930 --> 00:51:08,809 the information given to me directly to 1141 00:51:13,870 --> 00:51:10,940 Kurt Collins who's doing an ongoing 1142 00:51:15,250 --> 00:51:13,880 investigation on this thank you all for 1143 00:51:18,220 --> 00:51:15,260 listening and remember if you want to 1144 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:18,230 listen live check out dark matter radio 1145 00:51:27,849 --> 00:51:21,970 net every Wednesday night at 8:00 p.m. 1146 00:51:29,260 --> 00:51:27,859 est or 1:00 a.m. UTC GMT thank you for 1147 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:29,270 listening to our show and please 1148 00:51:34,089 --> 00:51:30,650 remember to check out our website 1149 00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,099 podcast UFO calm for the latest blogs 1150 00:51:39,039 --> 00:51:36,559 and forums we'll be back next week